What do you use for extra and backup lighting in the cockpit for IFR
flights at night? Some airplanes have pretty decent lighting built in.
Others can have decent cockpit lighting and poor panel lighting.
Others have shadows in poor locations, or areas of the panel/cockpit
you'd really like to have illuminated, but aren't.

Myself, I keep a LED flashlight around my neck, and other flashlights
nearby and handy. I keep on trying other items and discarding them.
Perhaps .. I've just never found the right item.

Things I've been thinking about ...
A yoke/yoke-board mounted light, such as a flex-lite or some LED
bar might work well for lighting the panel either in normal flight
or when the lights go out. Some velcro on adhesive strips, stick it
to the cockpit ceiling, and put something like a pelican VersaBrite
II up there to provide some area illumination.

Some better lighting for a yoke/knee board would be nice, maybe a flexlite,
or same flood light on velcro mentioned earlier. Of course, some
sort of backlit timer/counter/stopwatch would really be great, but I
haven't found a good one in many years of looking.

That's some of the considerations I have, was wondering what other people
use.

Thanks
Bolo -- Josef T. Burger
--
| Josef Burger U of WI-Madison Computer Sciences | "No matter where you go,
| "Bolo" uwvax!bolo | There you are"
| http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~bolo/ | -- Buckaroo Banzai

(Josef Burger) wrote in
:

> What do you use for extra and backup lighting in the cockpit for IFR
> flights at night? Some airplanes have pretty decent lighting built
> in. Others can have decent cockpit lighting and poor panel lighting.
> Others have shadows in poor locations, or areas of the panel/cockpit
> you'd really like to have illuminated, but aren't.

I have a home-made lip light on my mike, with a green LED and an
additional slide switch I added after I had to file 3 IFR flights while
enroute, trying to keep the light on with my lip while talking to FSS. I
also have an LED headlight from Wally World that came with a red LED,
which I replaced with a green one. Red is a poor choice for night
lights, and I stopped using them long ago. Green is far superior. The
headlight also has 2 white LEDs, and I use it for preflights, starting,
etc. The green LED that I installed is really too bright, and I seldom
use it. The lip light works very well, though, just enough light to see
what I'm doing without blinding my FO.

--
Regards,

Stan

"Stan Gosnell" > wrote in message
...
>
> I have a home-made lip light on my mike, with a green LED and an
> additional slide switch I added after I had to file 3 IFR flights while
> enroute, trying to keep the light on with my lip while talking to FSS. I
> also have an LED headlight from Wally World that came with a red LED,
> which I replaced with a green one. Red is a poor choice for night
> lights, and I stopped using them long ago. Green is far superior. The
> headlight also has 2 white LEDs, and I use it for preflights, starting,
> etc. The green LED that I installed is really too bright, and I seldom
> use it. The lip light works very well, though, just enough light to see
> what I'm doing without blinding my FO.
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Stan

Stan,

Just curious..

What do you find superior about green instead of red light?

TIA,

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ

"Josef Burger" > wrote in message
.. .
> What do you use for extra and backup lighting in the cockpit for IFR
> flights at night?

Besides the little Photon Microlight hanging around my neck, and the small
two-AA red-lensed flashlight clipped to my shirt, and a few more lights of
various types in trays under both front seats and in my flight bag, I mainly
use a red LED headlamp. It always points where I am looking, whether it be
my kneeboard, the instrument panel in front of me, or the radio stack. I
have tried several: an Eveready, an Energizer, both $13-16 at Target or
WalMart, and a Photon Fusion ($$). The Photon has adjustable brightness,
but also a bunch of unneeded flashing modes. The two lower-cost units are
almost too bright, but work well and have the advantage of simplicity.

When introducing students to night flight, I tell them to not buy any kind
of light, other than maybe a good D-cell or "lantern battery" light for
preflight, until after our first flight. On that flight, I let them try
various kinds of flashlights, then let them try a headlamp, so that they can
choose what suits them based on having tried some things. Invariably they
decide on the headlamp.

Stan

Let's read AIM 8-1-6.

Bob Gardner

"Jay Beckman" > wrote in message
news:CKRxd.11974$ry.7550@fed1read01...
> "Stan Gosnell" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> I have a home-made lip light on my mike, with a green LED and an
>> additional slide switch I added after I had to file 3 IFR flights while
>> enroute, trying to keep the light on with my lip while talking to FSS. I
>> also have an LED headlight from Wally World that came with a red LED,
>> which I replaced with a green one. Red is a poor choice for night
>> lights, and I stopped using them long ago. Green is far superior. The
>> headlight also has 2 white LEDs, and I use it for preflights, starting,
>> etc. The green LED that I installed is really too bright, and I seldom
>> use it. The lip light works very well, though, just enough light to see
>> what I'm doing without blinding my FO.
>>
>> --
>> Regards,
>>
>> Stan
>
> Stan,
>
> Just curious..
>
> What do you find superior about green instead of red light?
>
> TIA,
>
> Jay Beckman
> PP-ASEL
> Chandler, AZ
>

I don't fly much IFR at night, actually none within the last year. I
would fly some if I had good VFR under me, just for the practice.
But...when I did fly IFR at night, I had a flashlight that I put a red
cover over (autoparts store tape for repairing broken tailights) and
taped it to the overhead bar. That way if I lost electrical, I could
reach up there and turn it on. This along with a couple of other
flashlights. A sudden electrical failure at night would be very
difficult to manage, no autopilot, no lights and no radios, ALL
happening at once. One reason why I was never very enthusiastic about
night IFR. Most electrical failures give warning signs before going
full fatal, so you have that working in your favor. But it would be
very spooky to be in the clouds at night with no electric, very spooky.

This is something I've spent some time on, as my 57 year old eyes need lots of
help at night.

The best "conventional" solution I have found is to velcro a red Photon III
Covert microlight to each side of my headset. Set to medium brightness and
aimed to get a sort of horizontal ellipse pattern, you do not even need
instrument lighting. The light goes where you're looking and it is there before
you turn on ship's power and after you turn it off. Dual redundant, almost zero
weight, and the batteries seem to last forever. This solves your yoke light,
kneeboard light, panel light, and area light problems all in one whack.

Note 1: The "covert" part of the light is a little snout that shields the LED so
the light only goes forwards. Without the snout, there are distracting
reflections from the side window. Note 2: The Velcro mounting is not super
stable. 3M Dual Lock is much better if you can find it. mcmaster.com carries
it, as do others.

The lights do tend to get knocked off when the headset is in its bag. Photon
sells a little leash, about 3" long, that can be used to clip each light to the
headset frame. Then the little things can't wander too far.

One other thing learned: You want the light to be as high as possible, ideally
above your eyes. Otherwise, when you are writing on your clipboard, the shadow
of your hand will cover the where you are writing. That is the reason I don't
think the cute little mic boom lights are too great.

I am now using one of the Clarity Aloft headsets (which, BTW is spectacular in
all aspects) so I have made a sort of wire loop gadget that is effectively a
pair of red LED headlights that are more or less in the same position as the
Photon lights were on my standard headlights. An elastic band headlight would
probably work as well, as long as the brightness was adjustable.



On 12/20/04 11:59 PM, Josef Burger wrote the following:
> What do you use for extra and backup lighting in the cockpit for IFR
> flights at night? Some airplanes have pretty decent lighting built in.
> Others can have decent cockpit lighting and poor panel lighting.
> Others have shadows in poor locations, or areas of the panel/cockpit
> you'd really like to have illuminated, but aren't.
>
> Myself, I keep a LED flashlight around my neck, and other flashlights
> nearby and handy. I keep on trying other items and discarding them.
> Perhaps .. I've just never found the right item.
>
> Things I've been thinking about ...
> A yoke/yoke-board mounted light, such as a flex-lite or some LED
> bar might work well for lighting the panel either in normal flight
> or when the lights go out. Some velcro on adhesive strips, stick it
> to the cockpit ceiling, and put something like a pelican VersaBrite
> II up there to provide some area illumination.
>
> Some better lighting for a yoke/knee board would be nice, maybe a flexlite,
> or same flood light on velcro mentioned earlier. Of course, some
> sort of backlit timer/counter/stopwatch would really be great, but I
> haven't found a good one in many years of looking.
>
> That's some of the considerations I have, was wondering what other people
> use.
>
> Thanks
> Bolo -- Josef T. Burger

"Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
...
> Let's read AIM 8-1-6.
>
> Bob Gardner
>
> "Jay Beckman" > wrote in message
> news:CKRxd.11974$ry.7550@fed1read01...
>>
>> Stan,
>>
>> Just curious..
>>
>> What do you find superior about green instead of red light?
>>
>> TIA,
>>
>> Jay Beckman
>> PP-ASEL
>> Chandler, AZ
>>
>
>

Bob,

I know colored light will distort how well you can read a chart at night.

I was just asking what's better about green instead of red?

Jay B

This is an IFR newsgroup, and I assume that everyone is using
black-and-white charts. The usual argument against red light is that it
washes out detail on sectionals. The AIM does not give a glowing endorsement
of red lighting and emphasizes the need for white light. Green is a nice
alternative. I never used red light in all my years of flying IFR, but that
is just a personal peccadillo. I found that turning white cockpit and
instrument lighting down to an irreducible minimum worked well for me. I
also used diffused white light to illuminate approach plates.

I note that the chemical light sticks designed for emergency use glow green,
but that might just be a question of available chemicals. Googling "night
vision _ green" gets a lot of hits that refer to night vision goggles. I
hope and pray that none of our newsgroupie friends are using NVGs. That
appears to have driven the military to go to green instead of red.

Bob

"Jay Beckman" > wrote in message
news:SY%xd.12213$ry.10070@fed1read01...
> "Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Let's read AIM 8-1-6.
>>
>> Bob Gardner
>>
>> "Jay Beckman" > wrote in message
>> news:CKRxd.11974$ry.7550@fed1read01...
>>>
>>> Stan,
>>>
>>> Just curious..
>>>
>>> What do you find superior about green instead of red light?
>>>
>>> TIA,
>>>
>>> Jay Beckman
>>> PP-ASEL
>>> Chandler, AZ
>>>
>>
>>
>
> Bob,
>
> I know colored light will distort how well you can read a chart at night.
>
> I was just asking what's better about green instead of red?
>
> Jay B
>

Electroluminescent strip, 3"x24".
Pick your color... blue,green, yellow, red, orange.
Operates off a 9v battery for several hours.
$50.
http://beingseentechnologies.goemerchant2.com
Go to: "9 Even Wider..." on the left side.

"Jay Beckman" > wrote in
news:CKRxd.11974$ry.7550@fed1read01:

> What do you find superior about green instead of red light?

Using red light means LCD displays don't show up well. IFR
charts, which are blue, don't show up very well. Sometimes I
need to see a VFR chart for something, and all the magenta
washes out completely.

The human eye is much more sensitive tou green light than red
light. That's one reason all night vision devices use green.
The military uses green for all night cockpit lights. I notice
that it takes much less light to be able to see almost anything
using green light. Red is just traditional, from the time when
little actual research had been done, and the availability of
light with narrow wavelengths was unknown. Red was easy to do,
and had some small effect in reducing the loss of night vision.
Now it's possible to buy LEDs with a very narrow band of
wavelengths, and they don't affect your vision in other
wavelengths. White, OTOH, is a broadband mix of wavelengths
and will affect your night vision across the spectrum.

I need to preserve my night vision to some extent, because I'm
not always landing to a brightly lit runway. I land to
helipads that have lights, but may not be very well lit, and I
need to be able to find platforms in the middle of the ocean.
If you're flying airplanes between IFR runways, then white
light probably won't hurt much. I prefer narrow-band sources,
and red is the least effective of all the colors.

--
Regards,

Stan

"Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
...
> This is an IFR newsgroup, and I assume that everyone is using
> black-and-white charts.

Mea Culpa..

I didn't take this into consideration, sorry. I read most of the aviation
newsgroups in order to pick up as much info as possible and I sometimes
forget their specifc focus.

> The usual argument against red light is that it washes out detail on
> sectionals. The AIM does not give a glowing endorsement of red lighting
> and emphasizes the need for white light. Green is a nice >alternative. I
> never used red light in all my years of flying IFR, but that is just a
> personal peccadillo. I found that turning white cockpit and instrument
> lighting down to an irreducible minimum worked well >for me. I also used
> diffused white light to illuminate approach plates.

I haven't done much night flying since my required night training but I
agree with how you do it. I found myself only reaching for a point light
source when I needed to double check something in the A/FD.

> I note that the chemical light sticks designed for emergency use glow
> green, but that might just be a question of available chemicals.

IIRC, I've seen them in different colors...but mostly the bright green.

>Googling "night vision _ green" gets a lot of hits that refer to night
>vision >goggles. I hope and pray that none of our newsgroupie friends are
>using NVGs. That appears to have driven the military to go to green instead
>of red.
>
> Bob

Thanks Bob...

In the future, I'll try to be more aware of which group I'm in before I wade
in.

Regards,

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ

"Stan Gosnell" > wrote in message
...
> "Jay Beckman" > wrote in
> news:CKRxd.11974$ry.7550@fed1read01:
>
>> What do you find superior about green instead of red light?
>
> Using red light means LCD displays don't show up well. IFR
> charts, which are blue, don't show up very well. Sometimes I
> need to see a VFR chart for something, and all the magenta
> washes out completely.
>
> The human eye is much more sensitive tou green light than red
> light. That's one reason all night vision devices use green.
> The military uses green for all night cockpit lights. I notice
> that it takes much less light to be able to see almost anything
> using green light. Red is just traditional, from the time when
> little actual research had been done, and the availability of
> light with narrow wavelengths was unknown. Red was easy to do,
> and had some small effect in reducing the loss of night vision.
> Now it's possible to buy LEDs with a very narrow band of
> wavelengths, and they don't affect your vision in other
> wavelengths. White, OTOH, is a broadband mix of wavelengths
> and will affect your night vision across the spectrum.
>
> I need to preserve my night vision to some extent, because I'm
> not always landing to a brightly lit runway. I land to
> helipads that have lights, but may not be very well lit, and I
> need to be able to find platforms in the middle of the ocean.
> If you're flying airplanes between IFR runways, then white
> light probably won't hurt much. I prefer narrow-band sources,
> and red is the least effective of all the colors.
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Stan

Stan,

Thanks very much. Interesting stuff about helo flying.

Jay B

"Jay Beckman" > wrote in
news:gS1yd.12219$ry.11166@fed1read01:

> "Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
> ...
>> This is an IFR newsgroup, and I assume that everyone is using
>> black-and-white charts.

Bad assumption. Jepp IFR charts aren't black and white, and many of us
use Jepps.

> In the future, I'll try to be more aware of which group I'm in before
> I wade in.

Don't worry about it. There are many threads much further off topic than
this. Anyone who doesn't have VFR charts along on an IFR flight is
negligent, IMO. Sometimes you need more information than is shown on IFR
charts, and lighting applies to all phases of flight.

--
Regards,

Stan

Not a biggie...I wasn't taking you to task for where you posted, just noting
that sectionals do not play a big part in IFR flying...although they should
always be available.

Since I never used red or green, the colors on Jepp low altitude charts
didn't affect me. The important info is in blue anyway.

Gotta look up some of those wild chemical stick colors for New Year's Eve!!!

Bob

"Jay Beckman" > wrote in message
news:gS1yd.12219$ry.11166@fed1read01...
> "Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
> ...
>> This is an IFR newsgroup, and I assume that everyone is using
>> black-and-white charts.
>
> Mea Culpa..
>
> I didn't take this into consideration, sorry. I read most of the aviation
> newsgroups in order to pick up as much info as possible and I sometimes
> forget their specifc focus.
>
>> The usual argument against red light is that it washes out detail on
>> sectionals. The AIM does not give a glowing endorsement of red lighting
>> and emphasizes the need for white light. Green is a nice >alternative. I
>> never used red light in all my years of flying IFR, but that is just a
>> personal peccadillo. I found that turning white cockpit and instrument
>> lighting down to an irreducible minimum worked well >for me. I also used
>> diffused white light to illuminate approach plates.
>
> I haven't done much night flying since my required night training but I
> agree with how you do it. I found myself only reaching for a point light
> source when I needed to double check something in the A/FD.
>
>> I note that the chemical light sticks designed for emergency use glow
>> green, but that might just be a question of available chemicals.
>
> IIRC, I've seen them in different colors...but mostly the bright green.
>
>>Googling "night vision _ green" gets a lot of hits that refer to night
>>vision >goggles. I hope and pray that none of our newsgroupie friends are
>>using NVGs. That appears to have driven the military to go to green
>>instead of red.
>>
>> Bob
>
> Thanks Bob...
>
> In the future, I'll try to be more aware of which group I'm in before I
> wade in.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jay Beckman
> PP-ASEL
> Chandler, AZ
>

"Stan Gosnell" > wrote in message
...
> "Jay Beckman" > wrote in
> news:CKRxd.11974$ry.7550@fed1read01:
>
>> What do you find superior about green instead of red light?
>
>
< some stuff snipped >

> The human eye is much more sensitive tou green light than red
> light.
>
> I need to preserve my night vision to some extent, because I'm
> not always landing to a brightly lit runway.
>
I prefer narrow-band sources,
> and red is the least effective of all the colors.
>

There are two issues here, and Stan (the other Stan) has touched on both.
One is simply vision within the cockpit, and for this, any color of light
will do, except that the color should not compromise readability of
instruments and charts. Red is not the best choice for this. The other
issue is vision outside the cockpit, which is still very important for IFR
flight, as Stan pointed out. Light color and intensity should be chosen to
allow good in-cockpit visibility without compromising outside visibility.

The physiological basis for night vision (dark-adapted, or scotopic vision)
is primarily the characteristics of the retinal photoreceptors called rods.
These are indeed more sensitive to shorter wavelengths, and, at low
illumination levels, less light intensity should be required if a green
light is used. But true dark adaption is based on the presence of a
light-sensitive pigment in the rods called rhodopsin. This pigment is
naturally synthesized in the rods but is destroyed by light. Dark adaption
is the process of allowing the concentration of rhodopsin to increase by not
allowing its destruction by light. It takes 45 minutes or so for it to
reach maximum levels, but can be destroyed by a few seconds of exposure to
higher light levels. Red light does not have the destructive power on
rhodopsin that shorter wavelengths have, and that is why red light has long
been favored when maximum preservation of night vision is required. Blue
and green will have a stronger destructive effect.

The cones also become somewhat dark-adapted using other pigments, and they
respond much more quickly, like 5-7 minutes.

However, a balance must be struck. I think that most of our aviation vision
occurs in the so-called mesopic region, in which both rods and cones
contribute significantly. Dim white light or light of other colors will
allow good readability of instruments and charts while allowing reasonable
dark adaptation. The main thing is to avoid bright light.

My own experience is that red works well for me except on sectionals. Some
of the red lamps I use are a little brighter than I would like but I don't
find that they mess up my adaption even when falling directly on my face
briefly. White light does mess me up unless it is very dim. I haven't used
other colors. I keep a little white Photon microlight handy for looking at
sectionals when needed, but it does mess up my vision because it is so
bright.

One good reference is "Night Vision In Military Aviation", by the USAF
School of Aerospace Medicine:

http://www.brooks.af.mil/web/af/courses/amp/AMP_Online/amp_Eye_lectures/UNV7.doc


Stan

> I keep a little white Photon microlight handy for looking at
> sectionals when needed, but it does mess up my vision because it is so
> bright.
>
The Photon III has low/medium/high settings as well as some useless flash modes.
The mode is kind of a pain to change, but once set it stays on that mode. Try
one of these set at medium or low intensity. Also, with the "covert" snout your
eyes are shielded from directly viewing any of the emitted light.

"Mitty" > wrote in message
...
>
>> I keep a little white Photon microlight handy for looking at sectionals
>> when needed, but it does mess up my vision because it is so bright.
>>
> The Photon III has low/medium/high settings as well as some useless flash
> modes. The mode is kind of a pain to change, but once set it stays on that
> mode. Try one of these set at medium or low intensity. Also, with the
> "covert" snout your eyes are shielded from directly viewing any of the
> emitted light.

I haven't tried one of those, sounds useful. It must have the same
controller as the Photon Fusion headlamp, with all the hard-to-change modes
and useless flashing modes. But once you get it into the right mode, it's
great.

Stan

"Stan Prevost" > wrote in
:

> My own experience is that red works well for me except on sectionals.
> Some of the red lamps I use are a little brighter than I would like
> but I don't find that they mess up my adaption even when falling
> directly on my face briefly. White light does mess me up unless it is
> very dim. I haven't used other colors. I keep a little white Photon
> microlight handy for looking at sectionals when needed, but it does
> mess up my vision because it is so bright.

One problem for me with red light is that I have about a dozen gauges
with red lines and red areas. Red light doesn't help much in seeing
these. If the instrument lights fail and I have to rely on my own light,
red ain't gonna cut it, because there is likely to be lots of stuff going
on, and I need to know if I'm approaching limits on the engines, RPM,
torque, oil temps and pressures, hydraulic systems, and everything else.
I need to be able to see at a glance where the needles are in relation to
the redlines. If red is adequate in your aircraft, then use whatever
works for you. I've tried red, and don't like it.

--
Regards,

Stan

"Stan Gosnell" > wrote in message
...
>
> One problem for me with red light is that I have about a dozen gauges
> with red lines and red areas. Red light doesn't help much in seeing
> these. If the instrument lights fail and I have to rely on my own light,
> red ain't gonna cut it, because there is likely to be lots of stuff going
> on, and I need to know if I'm approaching limits on the engines, RPM,
> torque, oil temps and pressures, hydraulic systems, and everything else.
> I need to be able to see at a glance where the needles are in relation to
> the redlines. If red is adequate in your aircraft, then use whatever
> works for you. I've tried red, and don't like it.
>

Those are very good reasons for not using red in your aircraft. That has
not been a problem in the ones I fly.

Stan Gosnell wrote:

> "Stan Prevost" > wrote in
> :
>
>
>>My own experience is that red works well for me except on sectionals.
>>Some of the red lamps I use are a little brighter than I would like
>>but I don't find that they mess up my adaption even when falling
>>directly on my face briefly. White light does mess me up unless it is
>>very dim. I haven't used other colors. I keep a little white Photon
>>microlight handy for looking at sectionals when needed, but it does
>>mess up my vision because it is so bright.
>
>
> One problem for me with red light is that I have about a dozen gauges
> with red lines and red areas. Red light doesn't help much in seeing
> these. If the instrument lights fail and I have to rely on my own light,
> red ain't gonna cut it, because there is likely to be lots of stuff going
> on, and I need to know if I'm approaching limits on the engines, RPM,
> torque, oil temps and pressures, hydraulic systems, and everything else.
> I need to be able to see at a glance where the needles are in relation to
> the redlines. If red is adequate in your aircraft, then use whatever
> works for you. I've tried red, and don't like it.
>

Same here and I like it less every year since I turned 40! :-)


Matt

I may be imagining this, since I can't find one now, but I could have sworn
I have seen some NACO approach plate PDFs which have terrain features in
some shade of brown.

In any case, the Jeppesen low altitude enroute charts certainly have colors.

"Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
...
> This is an IFR newsgroup, and I assume that everyone is using
> black-and-white charts.

Since I'm a new instrument student, I can't comment on IFR at
night...but, having done a fair amount of VFR night flying, I've found
S-Lite's version of the lip light (can't remember the name at the
moment, has four LEDs, you can choose which color you like) to work
well. I went with green and like the results. Based on Bob's comments,
however, I'll have to look at my brand new Jepp charts to see how they
look under the green light. This unit isn't cheap (was last year's
Christmas present) and the battery case has no cover, something I need
to permanently fix. At the moment I use one of those velcro cord wraps
around it. The LED brightness can be controlled and you can select
between the single spot LED, three "flood" LEDs, or all. I find the
"flood" setting works well.

I also carry two flashlights in my bag, a 2-D cell maglight for
preflight and a 2-AA cell maglight for pre-engine start stuff in the
cockpit (could use my lip light but I don't put my headset on until
after engine start and the avionics master comes on).

Jack Allison
PP-ASEL, instrument student

Jack Allison > wrote in
ink.net:

> Since I'm a new instrument student, I can't comment on IFR at
> night...but, having done a fair amount of VFR night flying, I've found
> S-Lite's version of the lip light (can't remember the name at the
> moment, has four LEDs, you can choose which color you like) to work
> well. I went with green and like the results. Based on Bob's
> comments, however, I'll have to look at my brand new Jepp charts to
> see how they look under the green light.

The Jepp charts are very readable under green light, not so good under
red. Blue ink under red light washes out, but under green it appears
black. I haven't found a color except for green that isn't very visible
using green light.

--
Regards,

Stan

Stan Gosnell wrote:

>
> The Jepp charts are very readable under green light, not so good under
> red. Blue ink under red light washes out, but under green it appears
> black. I haven't found a color except for green that isn't very visible
> using green light.
>

The major key to map visibility and not ruining your night vision isn't
so much color as DIM. Oddly, the best and handiest source I've found
for reading charts at night is to use the backlight from my portable GPS
as the map light. It makes a large area, dim illumination that doesn't
mess up the colors.

On 12/27/04 9:03 AM, Ron Natalie wrote the following:
> Stan Gosnell wrote:
>
>>
>> The Jepp charts are very readable under green light, not so good under
>> red. Blue ink under red light washes out, but under green it appears
>> black. I haven't found a color except for green that isn't very visible
>> using green light.
>
>
> The major key to map visibility and not ruining your night vision isn't
> so much color as DIM. Oddly, the best and handiest source I've found
> for reading charts at night is to use the backlight from my portable GPS
> as the map light. It makes a large area, dim illumination that doesn't
> mess up the colors.

Here is a pretty good flashlight for reading charts where you want white light:

http://members.cox.net/rigelsys/rigelsys.html

I have the red/white "Skylight" version and it is completely dim-able down to
zero light. It is not as bright as you might want for outdoor walking path
lighting, but either color is bright enough for anything you might need to do in
the cockpit.

Sporty's sells it too.

On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 21:48:49 GMT, Mitty > wrote:

>On 12/27/04 9:03 AM, Ron Natalie wrote the following:
>> Stan Gosnell wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> The Jepp charts are very readable under green light, not so good under
>>> red. Blue ink under red light washes out, but under green it appears
>>> black. I haven't found a color except for green that isn't very visible
>>> using green light.
>>
>>
>> The major key to map visibility and not ruining your night vision isn't
>> so much color as DIM. Oddly, the best and handiest source I've found
>> for reading charts at night is to use the backlight from my portable GPS
>> as the map light. It makes a large area, dim illumination that doesn't
>> mess up the colors.
>
>Here is a pretty good flashlight for reading charts where you want white light:
>
>http://members.cox.net/rigelsys/rigelsys.html
>
>I have the red/white "Skylight" version and it is completely dim-able down to
>zero light. It is not as bright as you might want for outdoor walking path
>lighting, but either color is bright enough for anything you might need to do in
>the cockpit.
>
I have a little "RayOVac" (TM) blue, single LED flashlight. Although
it looks bulky, it's very light and comes with a clip that works on
the bill of a cap. It runs off three AAA batteries with an advertised
life of 200 hours.

I've worn it on IFR night flights of nearly 3 hours and it was always
comfortable.

Cheap too. As I recall it ran around $14 or $17 dollars.

Of course with the lighting in the Deb (and most old planes) that is
the primary lighting while a good flashlight can be the secondary.
I typically carry two with one being a 2 cell "mag light" and one
being a 3 cell "Mag Light". Not much good for cockpit lighting, but
it sure works around the airport. If it didn't reflect so much inside
the darn thing would make a good landing light. <:-))

When all else fails you can use one of the big lights by putting your
hand over the lens and letting the light leak through your fingers.
It's dim and it's red. Just don't let the white light shine through
or you really will be on instruments until your night vision comes
back.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
>Sporty's sells it too.

Roger > wrote in
:

> I typically carry two with one being a 2 cell "mag light" and one
> being a 3 cell "Mag Light". Not much good for cockpit lighting, but
> it sure works around the airport. If it didn't reflect so much inside
> the darn thing would make a good landing light. <:-))

If you want bright (and reliability) get one of the LED replacement bulbs
for the MagLights. The Luxeon LEDs actually put out more light than
Krypton bulbs, and last for many, many years, typically over 100,000
hours of use. I had given up on MagLights because of reliability issues,
but with the improvements in LED technology, I think they're worth a
look. LEDs work very well for me for preflights, because they make it
easier to see the oil levels in sight gauges. A thin layer of dim yellow
oil can be hard to see with a relatively yellow light, but the LED light
makes it stand out very well. I will never buy another incandescent
bulb, not for flashlights or for my house. They've been overtaken by
technology, and are too expensive and wasteful for continued use.

--
Regards,

Stan

Agree on the LED conversion of the mini-Mag. I replaced the bulbs with
the TerraLUX MiniStar 2. I also got pyrex lenses to replace the too soft
plastic ones.

Another option, the Inova 24/7. It's multi functioned with low and high
intensity white and a pretty bright red. It also has several signal
modes that are more useful when earth bound. It uses a 123 lithium cell
- which are obscenely expensive if you buy them in a store, but can be
gotten almost as reasonably as AAs online. They have a long shelf life,
last forever with an LED and are lighter than AAs.

JJF

Stan Gosnell wrote:
> Roger > wrote in
> :
>
>
>>I typically carry two with one being a 2 cell "mag light" and one
>>being a 3 cell "Mag Light". Not much good for cockpit lighting, but
>>it sure works around the airport. If it didn't reflect so much inside
>>the darn thing would make a good landing light. <:-))
>
>
> If you want bright (and reliability) get one of the LED replacement bulbs
> for the MagLights. The Luxeon LEDs actually put out more light than
> Krypton bulbs, and last for many, many years, typically over 100,000
> hours of use. I had given up on MagLights because of reliability issues,
> but with the improvements in LED technology, I think they're worth a
> look. LEDs work very well for me for preflights, because they make it
> easier to see the oil levels in sight gauges. A thin layer of dim yellow
> oil can be hard to see with a relatively yellow light, but the LED light
> makes it stand out very well. I will never buy another incandescent
> bulb, not for flashlights or for my house. They've been overtaken by
> technology, and are too expensive and wasteful for continued use.
>

Got a product number or something for the Luxeon bulb that
fits into the MagLite?

thanks

Here's where I got mine:

http://www.pocketlights.com/terralux_ministar2.asp

Blanche wrote:

> Got a product number or something for the Luxeon bulb that
> fits into the MagLite?
>
> thanks
>

Blanche > wrote in news:1104360173.687273
@irys.nyx.net:

> Got a product number or something for the Luxeon bulb that
> fits into the MagLite?

Google LED conversion and you'll find many choices. The LED Museum,
http://www.ledmuseum.org, has reviews and links for many sources.

--
Regards,

Stan

Foster > wrote:
: Agree on the LED conversion of the mini-Mag. I replaced the bulbs with
: the TerraLUX MiniStar 2. I also got pyrex lenses to replace the too soft
: plastic ones.

: Another option, the Inova 24/7. It's multi functioned with low and high
: intensity white and a pretty bright red. It also has several signal
: modes that are more useful when earth bound. It uses a 123 lithium cell
: - which are obscenely expensive if you buy them in a store, but can be
: gotten almost as reasonably as AAs online. They have a long shelf life,
: last forever with an LED and are lighter than AAs.

My problem with all the LED lights and conversions for the mini-mags is that
they are all *too* bright. My plane has red flood and a dozen or so red bulbs behind
the panel. I've bought into the theory that the least possible amount of light you
can use the better your night vision will remain. A second's blast of white from a
minimag will blow out my night vision.

I took a regular mini-mag, and bought a T-1 sized green LED... just the bare
LED. It was the brightest I could find, but most conversions use 4 or more LEDs to
replace the white bulb. Anyway, the spacing of the terminals on the LED is the same
as the white bulb, so that fits in great. Trouble is putting a resistor inline to
limit the current of the 2.1v bulb with 3.0v batteries. I ended up taking a 39 ohm
resistor to limit the current to about 25 mA. Using a small piece of double
insulation (think lamp cord, but for about 24 gauge solid wire), I folded the leads
back on each other with the double insulation between them:

_______
-<___R___>-
|________ | <- Resistor config
________|

o o
ooooooooo o
ooooooooo <- Insulator config threaded between resistor leads as shown.
Conductors lay on opposite sides in the crease between the double wire sheath
insulation. It fits nicely between the two AA's in the light and inserts the
resistance inline. Works great, it's just bright enough to see a chart, doesn't ruin
night vision, runs forever, and the green+red is enough color to discern just about
everything you need.

-Cory


--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

I tend to use a little flashlight that Rayovac makes. (I don't remember
their part number, but you can buy them at Wal-Mart for less than $10..
they're green with a clip, swivel head, and both a red and white lens, and
they run on a couple of AA batteries). When you clip it to your headset, it
gives you straight-ahead lighting, which is somewhat adjustable and perfect
for helping you see the panel. I use it as a backup source of panel light,
and supplemental lighting when flying night IFR in poorly lit airplanes.
They are, howver a bit too bright and too red (if you use the red lens) for
map reading.

Just my two cents.

-Rob
-Rob

"Josef Burger" > wrote in message
.. .
> What do you use for extra and backup lighting in the cockpit for IFR
> flights at night? Some airplanes have pretty decent lighting built in.
> Others can have decent cockpit lighting and poor panel lighting.
> Others have shadows in poor locations, or areas of the panel/cockpit
> you'd really like to have illuminated, but aren't.
>
> Myself, I keep a LED flashlight around my neck, and other flashlights
> nearby and handy. I keep on trying other items and discarding them.
> Perhaps .. I've just never found the right item.
>
> Things I've been thinking about ...
> A yoke/yoke-board mounted light, such as a flex-lite or some LED
> bar might work well for lighting the panel either in normal flight
> or when the lights go out. Some velcro on adhesive strips, stick it
> to the cockpit ceiling, and put something like a pelican VersaBrite
> II up there to provide some area illumination.
>
> Some better lighting for a yoke/knee board would be nice, maybe a
> flexlite,
> or same flood light on velcro mentioned earlier. Of course, some
> sort of backlit timer/counter/stopwatch would really be great, but I
> haven't found a good one in many years of looking.
>
> That's some of the considerations I have, was wondering what other people
> use.
>
> Thanks
> Bolo -- Josef T. Burger
> --
> | Josef Burger U of WI-Madison Computer Sciences | "No matter where you
> go,
> | "Bolo" uwvax!bolo | There you are"
> | http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~bolo/ | -- Buckaroo Banzai

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 19:45:55 +0000 (UTC),
wrote:


> My problem with all the LED lights and conversions for the mini-mags is that
>they are all *too* bright. My plane has red flood and a dozen or so red bulbs behind
>the panel. I've bought into the theory that the least possible amount of light you
>can use the better your night vision will remain. A second's blast of white from a
>minimag will blow out my night vision.

Then you'd like the little Ray-O-Vac I use. It's the three AAA cell
unit. It's just bright enough that you can use it to walk around in
the dark without falling. Just enough light to barely read a chart
when held at the normal distance. Even unfiltered it doesn't bother
my night vision.


<snip>

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

wrote in
:

> My problem with all the LED lights and conversions for the
> mini-mags is that
> they are all *too* bright. My plane has red flood and a dozen or so
> red bulbs behind the panel. I've bought into the theory that the
> least possible amount of light you can use the better your night
> vision will remain. A second's blast of white from a minimag will
> blow out my night vision.

I don't use any of these in the cockpit, they're only for preflighting,
etc. The white LEDs do help with seeing oil levels in sight gauges. In
the cockpit, I use a green LED lip light that I made. I also have a
headlamp with a green LED for a backup, but it's a very bright LED and a
little too bright for normal use. It's OK for me, but it distracts my
copilot. The lip light works well for us, and he talked me into building
one for him.

--
Regards,

Stan